Conversation with Marco Gerris
Marco Gerris in conversation with Dunya Khayame, 17 November 2025
[DK:] How are you?
[MG:] Well … [visibly overwhelmed].
This is quite comfy [gesturing at the bench].
It is, isn’t?
So please, tell me, how are you feeling?
Like this, really [still lounging on the bench].
You can start by relaxing a bit, maybe. Because I wanted to start by showing a picture. But it was too grainy to use. Even AI couldn’t fix it. But now I’ve got something even better than AI. Any idea what it might be?
[Shakes his head]
Your imagination. So, I figured, maybe everyone could close their eyes for a moment. And we’ll use the supercomputer inside our heads to picture the image.
Me too?
Yes please, go ahead on, close them.
[Closes eyes]
[Dunya starts describing the picture] We see this: a black-and-white image. It’s an orphanage in the Philippines, back in 1978. On a bench, just like the one we’re using right now [gesturing at herself and Marco] in front of a big tree, children dressed in little white outfits are getting ready for a picture. Their thin legs dangle over the edge. Little toes either touching the ground or just not quite reaching. They’re all set. The photographer can get to work. Are all the children neatly lined up on that bench?
No.
One nun, just outside the frame, is walking towards a boy who is not on the bench.
That boy is climbing up a pole further away. He’s got a huge grin on his face because he wants to show what he is capable of.
The nun starts pleading. “Come on, sit nicely here,” she says.
But the boy doesn’t come down. He just keeps climbing.
Alright, you may all open your eyes again.
[Already laughing]
Marco, who was that boy in the pole?
Not a clue [laughs].
Well, all right. Indeed, that was me.
Because you found this picture when you went back to that orphanage. You discovered it there. Can you talk a bit about that trip you made, going back?
It was amazing. I went with Micka. We’d just got together. And instead of going to China on tour with ISH, which was cancelled because of SARS, the country was closed. So, we ended up going to the Philippines instead. And I went looking for my roots. My adoption, my orphanage. And the nuns there gave me a file and inside were two black-and-white pictures. One of them was exactly like how you just described it [laughs].
And you were on holiday. But Micka told me you spent the entire holiday in the hotel room making a show for the kids there.
Not the entire holiday … [looks at Micka]
He did, didn’t he, Micka? Pretty much the entire holiday.
When we got there, there was some kind of traditional Filipino festival going on. And I asked, “Could we maybe do a little performance? Like for ten minutes or so?”
They loved the idea. But I felt bad, because the orphanage was quite further away. And I really wanted all the kids, there were like sixty or seventy of them, to be able to see it too. So, we ordered all these taxis and buses and brought everyone over. And instead of a ten-minute demo we ended up spending about an hour, right [looking at Micka]?
I was jumping over people, trying to play guitar, trying to flirt with her [points at Micka]. None of it worked. The Filipinos thought we were absolutely bizarre, but very entertaining.
And I’ve been told you also gave away your skates while you were there.
I did.
Pretty much, the most valuable thing you owned at the time, right?
Yeah. We were staying with Filipino friends. They had a son who happened to have my shoe size. And I thought, here, you take them, keep skating [mimes handing them over].
I wasn’t completely honest earlier on. Because there is one picture where, after a lot of begging, you did end up sitting on that bench. And quite nicely too.
Indeed, just like how we’re sitting now [gestures to their relaxed pose]. Exactly like now. Because now you’ve joined what you yourself call “the big shots”. And Alida said it beautifully earlier too. But you’ve never been driven by money or fame. And now all of a sudden, you’ve got both.
[Raises his eyebrows repeatedly at the audience]
So what does an award like this really mean to you?
Well, um. A lot. And at the same time, not that much. Because I’ve always been able to do what I wanted to do. By working hard, sure, and by convincing people. Especially the people who didn’t really believe in us. But also the funders, the people who make things possible. I showed them who we are, what we do, what our energy is. And that you can truly change things with that. So yeah, I’m incredibly grateful for that, honestly.
And I think this award is only going to help even more.
I opened my email this morning and saw a message from a school principal asking me “Can you come in and talk? I want to take things in a new direction.” And I was like, yes, this is exactly the kind of thing where you can make a difference. But I am just going to keep doing what we have the most fun doing.
You’re saying it opens new doors, in fact.
And why are those people who break out of boxes, who don’t fit anywhere, why are they so important?
Because they’re the ones closest to the other side. They know what it’s like to struggle.
And yeah, this might sound strange, but even though I’ve had an almost perfect career, it definitely came with challenges. And weirdly enough, I actually enjoyed trying to break through those. Like when I turned up at Dutch National Ballet knocking on their door. They looked at me funny at first and then there were fireworks. So sometimes, with a lot of positive energy, you can achieve so much more. And that’s exactly what I try to display time and again.
Any piece of advice in that sense? For the younger version of you, what would you recommend here and now?
To the younger Marco, or to the new generation?
Both really, so basically to yourself, and to the new generation who are a bit like the old version of you. Any piece of advice?
I’d say: stop whining and just get on with it.
**The audience laughs.**
And maybe don’t listen to people? That could be a theme too, right?
You should listen to the people who actually matter [laughs].
And know who those people are.
You’ve got to feel that out. And I’ve had loads of criticism, loads of tough conversations. And things didn’t always work out, you know. But I’m grateful that I was allowed to fall flat on my face. You know what I mean [looks at Dunya]? Not everyone is allowed that. But there’s nothing better than picking yourself back up and then creating something even cooler together.
And in all that falling and getting up again. Are there people whom without them, you would not have made it?”
Oh yeah, loads. I mean, I’d say 90% of the people right here *[gestures around the room]*. The other 10% are the big shots, right?
**The audience laughs**
Hi! *[waves at the audience]* See you in a while.
**The audience laughs**
That was a joke, Ron. Tiny joke.
But it’s also true.
I think you’ll be fine with all of Alida’s advice.
But alright, let me tell you this: I’m in this hip-hop group with all these OGs and the new generation. And my name came up a couple of times, like, “Yo, everything Marco does, blah blah.” And I’m thinking, dude, you’re not even from where I come from.
I had to go through the same struggles. And at the same time, I found it hilarious. I recognised it instantly, 5 years ago I was that guy going “Ugh, everything’s s…”. But yeah, I’ll have a chat with him at some point.
What was the question again?
Well, that. But also: who has been essential?
This is why I’m so glad we’re doing an interview, because I always forget to thank people. So definitely: everyone who’s here, thank you.
[Laughs]
Yeah yeah, but seriously. That’s just how it is. And of course, Micka, and my son over there *[points]* who came here against his will *[gives him a cheeky grin]*.
And why are they essential?
Because that’s the new generation. You must inspire them. If you can reach them, you get so much further. And the people from the early days of ISH. Without you guys, I could never have done this. But honestly, every performer I’ve worked with has given me something. I saw passion. I saw something I couldn’t do. That’s the point. And I’m so glad they were open to me. Because they come from hardcore hip-hop, hardcore ballet, hardcore opera, hardcore whatever. And I’m just a softy. So, to be able to trigger them and then make something beautiful together on stage, that’s the most amazing and meaningful thing. Yeah, nothing’s more meaningful than that.
So yeah. And I never say this, but also the funding bodies who gave me a chance. We had some tough discussions, but apparently, they always saw something. They even adjusted things for me. How cool is that?
So, this award … brilliant. But it’s only the beginning.
**The audience laughs and applauds.**
No, but really. It’s great. Because there were policymakers who thought, “What do we do with Marco?” And they changed their entire policy just to… *[searches for the words]*
Very cool.
Yeah, to keep him in, even though he didn’t fit their boxes. Thanks for that too.
Is there anything else you want to say, or have I forgotten something?
There’s already been *loads* said about me, hasn’t there? Yeah, let them all just go have a party or something. Celebrate together.
You’re basically already want to go again, aren’t you?
Yeah… *[laughs]*
Shall we let him go, or do we still need something from him?
I normally sit in that black hole over there *[points to the back of the room where you can sit unnoticed].
Let’s go.
I’m hearing “party”, yeah?
Alright, alright. Thank you, thank you for this conversation.
I do want to thank the jury as well. See? I go forgetting things again.
**The audience laughs.**
You’ve actually already thanked everyone in this room.
I have, haven’t I. They’re here, there. *[points to the jury]*
We had some interesting conversations, thank you.
I think you can probably greet each of them individually at the drinks afterwards.
Oh dear … *[that’s a lot of people]*
And yeah, I want to thank my parents too. They’re over there [points]. Look.
**The audience applauds loudly.**
And even my neighbours from across the street are here. They knew me from when I used to sneak out through the window.
And did they ever snitch on you?
Never. I think that’s impressive. I definitely would’ve.
Alright… *[realises she wants to respond to Marco’s last comment]*
No, I think that window, that’s also about finding your own way. You climb out the window, you climb up the pole, and we support each other.
And I think Alida’s advice will help you keep following your own path.
Wow… yeah, thank you. Thank you all.
Right … then we’ll move on to the grand finale of this evening.